ROUNDTABLE INTERVIEWS: Gary Oldman & Colin Firth Discuss TINKER TAILOR SOLDIER SPY

Starring Gary Oldman, Colin Firth, Mark Strong, Ciarán Hinds and Toby Jones, Focus Features' film adaptation of John le Carré's hit Cold War spy novel is scheduled for US theatrical release December 9th, 2011.

Through a love affair with the wife of a Moscow Centre intelligence officer, British agent Ricki Tarr (Tom Hardy) discovers that there may be a high-ranking Soviet mole within the Circus. Tarr alerts Oliver Lacon, the Civil Service officer responsible for the Intelligence Services, and Lacon enlists Peter Guillam (Benedict Cumberbatch) and his mentor, retired agent George Smiley (Gary Oldman), to investigate. Smiley and Guillam must investigate without the knowledge of Circus leadership, which is headed by Percy Alleline and his deputies Bill Haydon, Roy Bland, and Toby Esterhase, as any of these could be the mole.

Let’s start off with the same question that we asked the other guys. How intimidating was it going into this knowing about this landmark performance from Alec Guinness that people are inevitably going to [compare you to]?

Gary Oldman: "Terrifying, in a word. [Laughs.] Because [Guinness] became the face of George for generations, and he’s very much part of the establishment of the British thespian world. His shadow is cast – it’s large. The ghost of that performance was always there. So it wasn’t like [I said "yes" to this project] right away. I kind of had to think about it because those inevitable comparisons are there. I played a trick with my head, I think. What I did was I approached it like an actor would a classical part, and there’s room for interpretation. You know, there have been other Hamlets, other Romeos, other King Lears - do a Hamlet and you’ll be compared to all of those other people that have played it before. So I just thought it’s time for a reinterpretation. And now they’ve put me on the cover of the book. [Laughs.] I’m the face of George now."

How would you describe your interpretation of Smiley from a psychological point of view? How is he different psychologically from, say, the book, or other portrayals?

Gary Oldman: "Well, James Mason has played him. Denholm Elliott played him. Anthony Hopkins has played him. I mean, there have been a few Smileys. I think what I got from the book; there’s a bit of a sadist to George. If anything, Guinness was a little more huggable than mine. [Smiley] can [actually] be quite mean, he can be quite cruel, because he has to tickle people. There was a phrase in the book that was the key into him, that unlocked the door for me. Anne, [Smiley's] wife, describes George as a “swift” – a creature that can regulate his own body temperature to that of the room and the situation he’s in. Almost like a chameleon. Where you’re in a room and you just blend into the furniture, the walls. And that’s why he’s considered to be this sort of master spy. I mean, we even discussed things like, would he wear cufflinks, would he wear a tiepin? And we decided no – those are all the things that you would remember someone by. Another spy would remember [that stuff]. [He needed to] be invisible. And that passage, to me, was where the stillness comes from."

Was it appealing to you to play a spy that’s so [reliant] on his brains and skill as opposed to technology?

Gary Oldman: "Well, it’s an interesting period because it’s right on the cusp of technology, but it’s still an analog world. It’s still files. The Internet and the phones and these cameras have really completely changed the face of espionage – changed the way they do things. I admire Tomas for taking this and not wanting to, in any way, feel the need to compete with The Bourne Identity or the Bond movies. When I saw the movie, it was like watching a lava lamp. The pace of the movie is like snow falling. And I really admire that. You notice sounds. And it’s not that they’re particularly over-amped up. It’s that they have so much silence around them – that when you hear them, you notice them. Movies assault you now. There’s too many movies [where] the cuts are too quick, the sound is pumped-up. These movies you go and see – even comedy, like The Hangover - and they come at you. And I think it’s nice to see a quiet thriller. It’s refreshing. People are getting a little tired of all of that. I mean, what the f*ck is 3-D about? [Laughs.]"

Much of your performance was in your eyes, your body posture. How much of a challenge was it to get that performance across in that way?

Gary Oldman: "Well, you have the holy grail. You have the book. And everything you want to know about how to play George is in the book. That comment by Anne in the book – that was a beginning for me. But you have Tomas who is the barometer of what you’re doing. There were times when I was doing too little. So you have to trust the director when he’d say, “we need a little more there, we’re not quite getting it.” I’ve waited thirty years to play this part. Not this part, you know, but it’s – you are at the mercy of not only the roles that are available, [but also] all of [the other] variables. Sometimes there are roles you would like to play that they give to other people. Sometimes there are roles you would like to play but you have to have a holiday with the kids.

"There are all those things when it comes in and it’s not convenient. And you don’t get offered everything. But you’re also at the mercy of the imagination of the people who are casting you. Early on in my career, I was very fortunate because it just so happened that I played Sid Vicious and then I played Joe Orton. I played them back-to-back. And I didn’t engineer it, it just kind of happened like that. And now, you’ve got to admire someone like Chris Nolan - instead of giving me the role of the villain, he gave me the role of [Gordon]. And then I’ve worked with Luc Besson, and those are two kind of very comic-book characters. [But] Oswald’s a quiet character, Oswald’s subtle. If you think of cousins to Smiley, in that sense, there have been a few. But directors see you do one thing and they want you to keep doing that."

So, was it challenging to make that transition?

Gary Oldman: "Well, that’s the fun of it. First of all, that’s the fun of acting. I like to think of it. When I was growing up [in the 60s], you saw Peter Sellers and The Telegoons and all of those. And [even] Guinness wasn’t always a subtle actor. He’s played his fair share of…he’s worn some funny noses and wigs over the years, too. So, it’s like we’re all in a chain. It’s like links in a chain and it passes through. Now you’ve got Benedict Cumberbach; in this movie, he’s just fabulous. Fabulous actor. You’ve got Tom Hardy, you’ve got people like Michael Fassbender. You’ve got these younger actors of a different generation coming. And we’re all sort of part of it."

What about your status as being this revered actor [who young actors look to] for encouragement or enlightenment? Is it something you ever expected to happen?

Gary Oldman: "[It's been] a wonderful, unexpected thing. I [actually] met Michael Fassbender for the first time the other night [at the Governors Awards], and he just said to me, ‘You’re why I’m doing this.’ I’m [not saying] I walk around on air [Laughs] but those are nice things to hear, especially from people who one admires, who I look at and think he’s wonderful. It’s always very flattering. It’s all been a little bit of talent and a little bit of luck. Careers are funny things."

Do you think you would make a good spy now since you’ve made the whole transformation? [Laughs.] Could many actors make great spies?

Gary Oldman: "I’m too famous. [Laughs.] You know, Bond always [struck me] as a weird guy. He announces who he is everywhere he goes. ‘Mr. Bond is over there. Kill him.’ ‘How do you know it’s Bond?’ ‘Because he just told me.’ [Laughs.] You know, that’s weird to me. ‘Who is that handsome-looking guy who’s pulled up in an Aston Martin?’ ‘It’s the spy.’ [Laughs.] I never could get my head around that. I enjoyed it. But it’s not realistic. Tinker, Tailor is, I think, more [realistic]. You see the casualties of the job.

"Have you lost some of your quiet time since you’ve become more famous? Can you hide anymore? [Laughs.]
I can hide less in that sense. And it’s just started to happen. I’ve just noticed it. Because I go everywhere and, to this day, I don’t have a publicist. I go to the supermarket and I go with my kids – everywhere. I go to the doctor and I wait in the waiting room. I don’t have a sort of side door that lets me in. [Laughs.] I think people are quite surprised that they see me [shopping]. But I used to be able to hide more, so it might be time to get me something. What does Leonardo [DiCaprio] wear? He wears a baseball cap?"

Quickly, what do you think will surprise people the most about The Dark Knight Rises? And is there anything you want to say about working with Tom [Hardy] on that?

Gary Oldman: "I have very little to do with Tom on this one, actually. The story – I think [Nolan] has brought the whole trilogy perfectly [to a close]. Well, not to a close – who knows? I don’t think Chris will make another one. Maybe. But the story is great and I think it’s epic. I don’t think Chris would’ve…he’s smart enough and classy enough, I think, not to make a third one just for the sake of making it. He was really concerned with giving you a great story, so I think that’s what I’m excited about."

Why did you decide to do this film? Was it the classic story? The director?

Colin Firth: "Well, the whole thing wasn’t attached. I was actually the first of the current cast involved. So when I was talking to Tomas Alfredson, none of these actors were involved at the time. [But] I would’ve played any part in this. Partly because of the project as a whole appeals to me, the whole aura of it appeals to me, Tomas Alfredson appeals to me. It’s also partly because the characters themselves all are interesting enough, even if we only got [a chance] to kind of nibble at them, if you like. They’re all interesting enough to have their own story told. If you could follow them off-screen, you could follow them into a world where there’s a film to be made about each of them. And so I would’ve very happily taken on any of them, really."

Can you talk about some of the things you brought to this character that maybe a modern spy would not have done? Mannerisms that [perhaps] reflected the era and the personality of that time.

Colin Firth: "I don’t know because you’ll always find someone who is a bit of an anachronism. I’m not saying anything he would’ve done would’ve been impossible in a different time. I mean, his ideology is hard to imagine now, because the East and the West are not polarized in the way they were, communism and capitalism are not polarized in the way they were. And communism has obviously been discredited, and I think capitalism is being fairly discredited now as well. So I don’t think people live in a world of idealizing those things. In terms of mannerisms and things, I think he’s – you know, I was very conscious of him being a man of a certain era. A devoutly, Oxford-educated, sort of artistic type. I think you sometimes just look at the world you’re in, look at the clothes you’re wearing, the environment around you and the language you’re being given to speak and it plays itself. You don’t have to impose decisions on that. They just occur to you."

What surprised you the most about the final cut of the movie?

Colin Firth: "I suppose I was surprised that it was so well-achieved. But I knew that Tomas Alfredson was not going to lean on excessive dialogue and information. You know, one of the frightening things about taking on an adaptation of this book is that it’s dense. A lot of information is conveyed through complex dialogue. And there’s a lot of detail. The challenge was to [trim] that down – well, I imagine they already had to [trim] it down to do six hours of television back in the ’70s – but to [trim] it down to two hours, and to not only do that, but to actually [trim] it down even more so that you get two hours with very little dialogue. And it was amazing to me how well that worked. What kind of blew me away a little bit was I knew the book well and I knew [that there were] some struggles in the cutting room – yet [to] go down to two hours, you watch the movie, and there are [long sequences] with no talking. I [was wowed].

"They were worried about how much time they had to tell the story, and you spend ten minutes watching Gary Oldman walk down a street. [Laughs.] And I loved it, because it showed such confidence. And the music was incredible. Moody. And [the film] looked so sad. This man in his raincoat getting his new glasses put on. That told me much more about the fact that I was getting into something that was going to commit me to be interested in this person, and that it was an emotional story, there was something personal going on. Because if you’re going to confuse people – and this film does confuse people, will confuse people – I think people like to be a little bit stretched. They like to have a puzzle. And I think almost everybody comes out thinking they haven’t quite grasped everything. But, mostly, it’s in a way that makes people want to go back, rather than say ‘I was annoyed.’ And you do that by drawing people in. And you can do that if you magnetize people, and I think it does that. Gary [Oldman] is such a magnetic actor at the end of the day. Those shots and that sense of melancholy, the sense of stately pace and silence, are far better currency in film than just a bunch of information."

When you were the first person signed on to this, did they ask you what role you wanted to play?

Colin Firth: "No, no. It was Haydon. I would’ve said Smiley, come on. [Laughs.]"

Gary Oldman was saying that he enjoyed so much the retro style and the film’s slow pace. Where do you stand in terms of technology and [its use] in moviemaking?

Colin Firth: "I don’t [really] stand anywhere on it. I mean, if it’s good, it’s good. I don’t think technology has to be the enemy. I think you could do extraordinary things with it as long as you don’t drown your story. It’s very interesting, the debate about Avatar. I happen to really like it. I liked what it was saying, quite aside from being dazzled by, you know, all the stuff that was floating around me. People, I think, can sometimes have a prejudice against something because it’s so technologically highly-achieved that they won’t see any heart in the thing. But I thought that wasn’t the case. I thought it was well-acted and [there was] a thoughtful story. So it was legitimate. On the other hand, it can simply be a very practical impediment. If you have devices which solve all your problems, you have to then work out what kind of conflict you’ve got. “We’ve got an [indestructible] enemy. Press a button.” Story’s over. [Laughs.] I’ve had this struggle with the business of mobile phones in storytelling, because so much can get dealt with now in a phone call. [There are things] you could take a whole movie to deal with if there wasn’t a mobile phone. [Laughs.] And I’ve just done a script actually called Arthur Newman, about a guy’s journey across America and he’s sort of disappeared from his old life. The script was written twenty years ago, originally. And, for that reason, mobile phones don’t really appear in it. And I’m very happy for them not to appear. Because the minute you decide that this guy’s got a phone in his pocket, you know, [it changes completely]. Or you could have a story about a guy who has to travel 3,000 miles in order to relay something to somebody and that could [actually] be over in a phone call, [destroying] amazing things that could’ve happened along the way.

"Now I’m being slightly [pessimistic] about this. There are ways around these things and there are films that use them brilliantly. I just think the fact that you’ve got things that solve problems for us can sometimes conflict with drama. [But] the interesting thing with espionage – the little I know about it – [is that] aesthetically it’s wonderful. I think there’s a big appetite to look at low-tech stuff. I think a number of people [want] to see reel-to-reel tape recorders and actual typewriters that clack and elevators where you see the pulleys. And, you know, the fact that things can’t be solved with a microchip or a satellite. But, from what I understand, the spies don’t rely that much on the technological stuff, because it’s unreliable. I’m not talking about drones or anything, but the kind of stuff these guys are doing. You don’t carry a cell phone around where you could be found – because it’s traceable. They use paper still. And so do the mafia. This guy they arrested in Sicily, who’s been on the run since the year I was born, since 1960, he wasn’t caught largely because of that – he never had a computer or a cell phone, never had anything that would be traceable or hackable or recordable or reproducable. He wrote his instructions down on minuscule pieces of paper, basically like lint in his pocket, and trusted only his family. Lived most of his life in a tree, from what I understand. [Come to think of it], I don’t know what the point of being a mafia boss is if you live in a tree. [Laughs.]"

How has your experience as a theater actor enriched your experience as a film actor?

Colin Firth: "I don’t know. I think everything, if you let it, will enrich everything else. I’ll tell you what it is, really. There are probably all sorts of ways one could answer that question, but the thing that jumps to mind is [that] it’s only in the theater that you get to experience what a rehearsal can be. Films don’t really have them. You can have some very valuable moments of trying to explore [things briefly], but you can’t do it the way you can in the theater where you hopefully have at least four weeks. You know, there are some universities in which their theater – you hear stories of the Moscow Art Theater rehearsing for a year. So these people know so well what they are and what they’re doing. But that business of actually trying something out and having this extraordinary first instinct, which might be a good one, and then putting it to the test and getting it on its feet and getting gradually off the script and learning the whole play from beginning to end – then you realize all your inspiration is kind of dying around you on the second week and you don’t know what’s happening, there’s no energy and you’re never going to get it. [Laughs.]

"And then actually starting to kind of rediscover things. You just plow on and on and on, and you make mistakes, and you try other things because you gave up one move and picked up another. And there will be a dead zone, if you do that. And you will hopefully come out of it. With film, you are very dependent on that first instinct thing because you don’t have much rehearsal. You have to think on your feet and hope the camera is there to catch it. If you rehearse a bit, you’re likely to get caught in the dead zone and get stuck there. That’s the trouble, because you can’t have a brilliant first impulse all the time. You can’t just keep lightning in the bottle like that, so unless you’ve got time to see it through. You know, too much rehearsal in film is dangerous, unless you really do a lot".

Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, scheduled for US theatrical release on December 9th, 2011, is directed by Tomas Alfredson (Let the Right One In) and stars Gary Oldman, Colin Firth, Mark Strong, Toby Jones, Ciarán Hinds, Stephen Graham, Simon McBurney and Christian McKay. The title comes from the names Control (the Circus Chief) assigns to various senior intelligence officers under suspicion of being a Soviet mole. The code names "Tinker", "Tailor", "Soldier", "Poorman" and "Beggarman" are derived from the English children's rhyme "Tinker, Tailor".